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Q: What happens if a Goal and UnGoal are met at the same time?

… We were playing Cthulhu Fluxx, and what complicates things is that my wife had the Secret Cultist, so she would win if the UnGoal overrides the Goal, but my son would have won with the Goal if that overrides the UnGoal. [Note from Looney Labs, in Cthulhu Fluxx, a simultaneous Goal and UnGoal could arise from either Double Agenda or The Stars Are Right. Zombie Fluxx and Martian Fluxx could also generate this condition since they both have Double Agenda and an UnGoal. Zombie Fluxx also has the Zombie Boss Rule which can make a player win in the case of the UnGoal being met.]

A: Well, this IS a doozy. Andy and I had to think this through carefully.

But in the end, the answer seems obvious: on the rule sheet itself, at end of the first page in “Notes” is the ruling for ties:

“The game doesn’t end until there is a clear winner. If for some reason two of more players meet the winning conditions simultaneously, the game continues until a single winner emerges.”

So, for your situation, the answer is actually fairly simple: there were two players meeting winning conditions simultaneously, so keep playing until a clear winner emerges. Note that the “clear winner” need not be one of the two originally tied. It could happen that someone else manages to break the tie and win instead of either one of them.

What got a little tricky for us, is that we also wanted to rule in cases where the Cultist/Secret Cultist/Zombie Boss wasn’t invoked, which is to say when there is one player winning, but the conditions for “all players losing” is also met. How could that be? Would we rule that there is only one player winning? Or would we rule that there is “no clear winner”, since that player should simultaneously be both winning and losing?

We went with the latter: If a Goal and UnGoal are met simultaneously, then, even if there is not an actual player that can claim victory in the case of the UnGoal conditions, having the UnGoal met is like having the “forces of evil” be the winner. So if a player meets the winning condition, they are actually tied with “the forces of evil” , thus play would continue until a clear winner emerges.

In a way, all that the Cultist/Secret Cultist/Zombie Boss does is make an actual player represent those forces of evil, thereby claiming that victory.

Q: Do Creepers prevent the Secret Cultist (or the regular Cultist) from claiming his win on an UnGoal?

A: No. The idea is that the Secret Cultist benefits from the end of the world in ways regular players do not, so everything is backwards — that which would normally make you lose now helps you win. So if victory is found through the Minions of Darkness, it’s just a bonus if Cthulhu himself also joins the party!

While the win conditions for the (non-secret) Cultist are more narrow, the same is true, since they’re winning with an UnGoal, reveling in the destruction of all we hold sane.

Q: Please explain how Metamorphosis and Madness impair Keepers in Cthulhu Fluxx.

A: The Keepers in Cthulhu Fluxx that have special powers (meaning there is some ability which could be impaired) include:

The Dreamer (cure Nightmares anywhere on the table, whether attached or not)
The Reanimator (steal The Body, if in play)
The Socialite (steal The Poet, if in play)
The Sanitarium (cure Nightmares or Madness if attached to your Keepers)
The Elder Sign (hide, i.e. neutralize any one unattached Creeper)
The Necronomicon (move any Creeper from player to player, then put the Necronomicon back in your hand)
The Ghoul (discard The Body, if it is in front of you)
The Cultist (win if in play when The Dunwich Horror Ungoal causes everyone else to lose)

Here is a flavor-text interpretation:

Regarding Madness (which only affects Investigators)
The Dreamer, Reanimator and Socialite can’t do any of that nifty stuff they do if they have gone Insane. Easy. Remember that Nightmares, however, don’t impair the Keeper, so The Dreamer can still get rid of them, even if he’s the one who has them.

Regarding Metamorphosis (which can attach to ANY Keeper)
If a Keeper starts to Metamorphose, it just can’t function the way it should. A Metamorphosed Sanitarium probably isn’t going to cure your Madness or your Nightmares (in fact, it will probably make them worse) and neither will a Metamorphosed Dreamer. The Socialite just isn’t going to be particularly attractive to The Poet once she starts turning into a frog-person.

There are some other theming issues that are raised with Metamorphosis, however, because it is so far-reaching (attaches to any Keeper).

For example, does it really make sense that Wilbur Whately wouldn’t win if The Dunwich Horror occurred, just because he was Metamorphosed? I thought a main quality of this personage was that he was pretty darn metamorphosed to begin with. Also, somehow I thought a Metamorphosed Ghoul would still eat Dead Bodies.

I consulted Andy on this, however, and he had to conclude that, while it does not necessarily make the best thematic sense, the rule with regards to gameplay, is quite clear: those special abilities are lost if that Keeper is Metamorphosed. Maybe they start morphing into something NICER than they were before!

Ghoul: “My tummy feels funny! That Dead Body just doesn’t look that appetizing anymore…”

Wilbur: “OMG where are my abdominal tentacles?! Dad’s* totally not going to recognize me without them! I am SO toast…”

* For those less familiar with The Dunwich Horror, Wilbur Whately is the abomination of a son resulting from a human woman bearing the child of an Elder God. Wilbur is trying to summon his father, Yog Sothoth, to the Earthly plane.

Q: The Cultist states that “you win if the Dunwich Horror UnGoal conditions are met. Does the Dunwich Horror have to be in play for that to happen?

A: The Dunwich Horror Ungoal has to be in play. It was tricky for us to word this. If it were a Goal, then we could say “if someone wins with…” which would require the Goal to be on the table. What we really meant was “If everyone loses because of the Dunwich Horror UnGoal…” which would, of course, mean that the Dunwich Horror is in play. That didn’t seem right since everyone is not losing – the Cultist is winning!

Think of it as though the Dunwich Horror Ungoal acts as a Goal for you if you have the Cultist in front of you. Obviously the Dunwich Horror has to be in play in order for you to win with it, just as for any other Goal.