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Q: Can someone reveal a Creeper hidden under their Elder Sign after the game has ended due to an UnGoal, to secure the victory via Cult Clash?

A: There are two situations which could be the case. The first one is actually very easily resolved, but the second one is a bit more complicated.

1: Doom points are even, and the revealed Creeper would tip the Doom points in one player’s favor.
2: Doom points are uneven, and the balance would change when the hidden Creeper is revealed.

1: Since Cult Clash is in play, there can be no situation where all players lose. Cult Clash is intended to ensure there will always be a winner (for example, in a tournament situation, you’d want to have a winner for every game). Therefore, in this case, if both players were tied for the number of Doom points, you do as you would for any “tie” or “simultaneous win”: the game continues until there is a clear winner. So the game has not “ended due to an UnGoal,” and the player with the Elder Sign simply reveals their hidden Creeper, and wins.

2: If, on the other hand, the game ends due to an UnGoal with Cult Clash in play, and Player A appears to have the most Doom points, until Player B reveals a Creeper hidden under their Elder Sign, then Player B is essentially stealing the win from Player A, similar to using a Surprise to cancel a game-winning play, so just like using a Surprise in such a situation, it’s all going to depend on INTENT and TIMING.

If you’re looking to cancel someone else’s win, you’ve got to be really on-the-ball about it. Basically, Player B, with the hidden Doom Points under their Elder Sign, needs to be prepared for the possibility of the Cult Clash victory so that they can deliberately reveal their hidden Creeper to steal the win AS SOON AS THE UNGOAL IS TRIGGERED.

If Player B only realizes they have more Doom than they thought AFTER the count has publicly been made… they missed that opportunity. Cthulhu called, and they were out to lunch or something.

Q: If a player has both the Mi-Go/Fungi Creeper & the Elder Sign (& several investigators) what happens when Mi-Go Migration is played?

(and of course the Mi-Go/Fungi is not covered by the Elder Sign). The first part of Mi-Go Migration says that all players discard an Investigator, except for the player with the Elder Sign. The second part of Mi-Go Migration says that the player with the Mi-Go/Fungi Creeper loses ALL their investigators (and the Mi-Go), but doesn’t mention any protection from the Elder Sign in this case. What should happen in this case?

A: We consulted Keith (our game designer friend and Lovecraft expert who adapted Fluxx to the Cthulhu theme for us) and he ruled that, in a strict reading of the card, you’d take each paragraph separately, in order:

1) All players discard an Investigator except the player with the Elder Sign.
2) The player with the Mi-Go in play loses ALL their Investigators. As it comes second, it ends up overriding the first rule entirely.
Result: The player with the Mi-Go loses all their Investigators, and the Elder Sign does not protect against this effect at all.

HOWEVER: It was put forth that another possible call would be to rule that the Elder Sign is capable of protecting exactly ONE Investigator, and no more, so that the person who had both Mi-Go and Elder Sign would lose all but one Investigator. He says this would be a perfectly reasonable Keith-approved house rule one might choose to implement.

Q: How is the Elder Sign different from other Keepers with a Creeper attached?

The Elder Sign, in Cthulhu Fluxx specifically states that the Creeper it’s covering moves with it. This is not specifically noted for other attaching Creepers. Does that mean other attaching Creepers don’t move with their attached Keeper?

A: The reason the Elder sign specifically tells you that its Creeper comes along for the ride is that the Creeper associated with the Elder Sign is not actually attached, rather, it is being nullified. Hiding in this fashion does not constitute attachment: you’re completely hiding the Creeper as though it doesn’t exist for you. Therefore it can’t prevent you from winning, but neither can it be used for a Goal.

Also note that the Elder Sign can hide ANY Creeper, even if it’s one that is not capable of attachment (but if it is an attaching type Creeper, you can’t hide it if it’s already attached to some other Keeper, hence the requirement that the Creeper be unattached in order to hide it).

Q: Does the Elder Sign protect against the Mi-Go Migration?

Suppose Player1 has the Fungi Creeper and the Elder Sign Keeper as well as several investigators. (The Fungi creeper is not hidden by the Elder Sign.) What happens when the Mi-go Migration action is played?

A: The first part of the card indicates that the player with the Elder Sign is protected and does not have to discard an Investigator. However, the second part of the card overrides this, requiring that a player who has the Mi-Go/Fungi Creeper must discard all of their Investigators. Unfortunately, as written the Elder Sign won’t help you in this case. However, Andy asked Keith about this on Episode 37 of the Download podcast, and they sanctioned a house rule for the player with the Elder Sign to be allowed to save one of their Investigators in this situation.

Q: How does Crawling Chaos interact with The Elder Sign?

Crawling Chaos specifies that it detaches creepers from keepers, but The Elder Sign doesn’t use the “attached” nomenclature to describe how it covers a creeper. Is The Elder Sign considered attached to the card it covers for purposes of Crawling Chaos, or does something weird happen?

A: If a Creeper is hidden by the Elder Sign, it’s just like it’s not in play (until you choose to reveal it). Its doom count is not on the table, it can’t be moved, stolen, or destroyed (though if you move or steal or destroy the Elder Sign, the Creeper goes with it.)

Q: Can the Elder Sign or the Necronomicon protect themselves from unattached Metamorphosis?

If I draw (and play) Metamorphosis while I control The Elder Sign, do I have time to put The Elder Sign on top of Metamorphosis before Metamorphosis can attach? What about the reverse order? Suppose I have Metamorphosis but no Keepers (so Metamorphosis is unattached). Can I play The Elder Sign on top of Metamorphosis?

Similarly, with the Necronomicon, do I have time to use its special power to move Metamorphosis away before it attaches itself to the book?

A: Just for the record, it’s not so much that you play the Elder Sign on top of a Creeper, as it is that you hide a Creeper under it after both are on the table. After discussing this with Andy, his ruling was that Creepers attach instantly to applicable Keepers they share the table with (in front of a given player). It doesn’t matter which order you play Metamorphosis and the Keeper; Metamorphosis would attach instantly, and the Keeper would lose its special ability before it had a chance to use it to get rid of or neutralize Metamorphosis.

Q: Please explain how Metamorphosis and Madness impair Keepers in Cthulhu Fluxx.

A: The Keepers in Cthulhu Fluxx (that I could find on a casual perusal) that have special powers include:

Investigators:
The Dreamer (cure Nightmares anywhere on the table, whether attached or not)
The Reanimator (steal The Body, if in play)
The Socialite (steal The Poet, if in play)

The Sanitarium (cure Nightmares or Madness if attached to your Keepers)
The Elder Sign (hide, i.e. neutralize any one unattached Creeper)
The Necronomicon (move any Creeper from player to player, then put the Necronomicon back in your hand)
The Ghoul (discard The Body, if it is in front of you)
The Cultist (win if in play when The Dunwich Horror ungoal causes everyone else to lose)

Here is a flavor-text interpretation:

Regarding Madness (which only affects Investigators)
The Dreamer, Reanimator and Socialite can’t do any of that nifty stuff they do if they have gone insane. Easy. Remember that Nightmares don’t impair the Keeper, so The Dreamer can still get rid of them, even if he’s the one who has them.

Regarding Metamorphosis (which can attach to ANY Keeper)
If a Keeper starts to Metamorphose, it just can’t function the way it should. A Metamorphosed Sanitarium probably isn’t going to cure your Madness or your Nightmares (in fact, it will probably make them worse) and neither will a Metamorphosed Dreamer. The Socialite just isn’t going to be particularly attractive to The Poet once she starts turning into a frog-person.

There are some other theming issues that are raised with Metamorphosis, however, because it is so far-reaching (attaches to any Keeper).

For example, does it really make sense that Wilbur Whately wouldn’t win if The Dunwich Horror occurred, just because he was Metamorphosed? I thought a main quality of this personage was that he was pretty darn metamorphosed to begin with. Also, somehow I thought a Metamorphosed Ghoul would still eat Dead Bodies.

I consulted Andy on this, however, and he had to conclude that, while it does not necessarily make the best thematic sense, the rule with regards to gameplay, is quite clear: those special abilities are lost if that Keeper is Metamorphosed. Maybe they start morphing into something NICER than they were before!

Ghoul: “My tummy feels funny! That Dead Body just doesn’t look that appetizing anymore…”

Wilbur: “OMG where are my abdominal tentacles?! Dad’s totally not going to recognize me without them! I am SO toast…”

Q: Can I pile up my Keepers in play in a stack, or do I have to lay them out so they are clearly displayed?

A: While it is not specified in the rules, the intention is that all Keepers and Creepers under your control should be visible to your opponents at all times unless there is some specific situation that lets you stack or hide them. In general, if a Keeper or Creeper is hidden under another card, it is as though it does not exist on the table, and a player may only stack Keepers/Creepers in certain very specific situations.

For example, in Martian Fluxx, you are allowed to hide your Pathetic Humans (Creepers) under your Abduction Chamber (Keeper). They are effectively “not showing on the table” and do not prevent you from winning (though you can release them at any time to meet a win condition).

There is a similar card in Pirate Fluxx that lets you hide your “booty” Keepers under your Treasure Map. They don’t count towards the Keeper limit, and this protects them from being Plundered, (a special Rule in Pirate Fluxx) but if someone uses Steal a Keeper to take your map, they also take the booty you’ve hidden under it.

In Cthulhu Fluxx, one may hide one Creeper under the Elder Sign card, which neutralizes it, much like the Abduction Chamber does for Pathetic Humans, but for only one Creeper.

There may be other cards which allow similar situations, but unless you have any of these special cards that allow you to hide a Keeper or Creeper in front of you, all your Keepers and Creepers need to be showing. If space is an issue, you can overlap them so the name stripe is showing, but you may not simply hide them from the other players.